Northstar engine swap

[bob23069]

I would like to upgrade my 307 engine on my 83 Toro convertible. Has anyone seen any info on transplanting the whole eng/trans/ECU FWD Northstar into a third gen Toro? Thanks

[Otto Skorzeny]

I wouldn't consider a Northstar engine to be an upgrade. They are notorious leakers from every orifice and suffer from a host of other maladies.

I think you would be better off doing a proper rebuild of your original system(s).

[bob23069]

Thanks for your response. Yes, I have heard they had coolant, head gasket problems. The upgrade would be increasing the horse power by a factor of 3 with a tranny that is designed to handle the power. I have considered a big block Olds but clearance problems and fear of overpowering the existing tranny have steered me away from that. I bought a supposedly rebuilt 403 but pulled the heads to find it had been bored .060. I was afraid of trying to get more than the stock 180 hp with that much overbore and the siamese cylinders. I decided to sell it. I did price a 300 hp 350ci Olds for ~$4200 but would have to spend quite a bit more to complete and would still have the question about the tranny. I suspect that I could get a whole Northstar car with relatively low mileage for considerably less than going the high power Olds route. Of course my biggest motivation is do something totally different from what you normally see. The GM SBC crate engine would be an easy route but every time I look under a hood that is what I see.

[Otto Skorzeny]

I'm not familiar with all the N* variations among makes, models, and years, but my brother's Buick (low mileage, babied, and regularly serviced according to factory specs) has valve cover leaks, oil pan leak, ps leak, a coolant leak somewhere).

Transmission has to be removed to replace oil pan gasket. That repair alone is $1500 at the dealer. Talk about a royal pain in the ass.

I'd look into polishing and porting the heads on your engine and any other rodder's trick to get better performance. At that age you probably don't need a yearly emission test so maybe ditching all the pollution crap will help?

I'd consider everything else before attempting the N* downgrade.

[bcroe]

Thanks for your response. Yes, I have heard they had coolant, head gasket problems. The upgrade would be increasing the horse power by a factor of 3 with a tranny that is designed to handle the power. I have considered a big block Olds but clearance problems and fear of overpowering the existing tranny have steered me away from that. I bought a supposedly rebuilt 403 but pulled the heads to find it had been bored .060. I was afraid of trying to get more than the stock 180 hp with that much overbore and the siamese cylinders. I decided to sell it. I did price a 300 hp 350ci Olds for ~$4200 but would have to spend quite a bit more to complete and would still have the question about the tranny. I suspect that I could get a whole Northstar car with relatively low mileage for considerably less than going the high power Olds route. Of course my biggest motivation is do something totally different from what you normally see. The GM SBC crate engine would be an easy route but every time I look under a hood that is what I see.

Without a doubt the simplest upgrade would be a 403. Don't be fooled by that 160hp rating back then. Those
had a one-fits-all Cat converter choking it, and a very poor HEI advance curve. My 4150 lb Olds did 0-60
in 7.5 sec with 403, TH400 switch pitch, and an economical 2.41:1 axle. It had good duals and a 350
curved HEI. That translates to 260 hp, and my VC2000 measured 200 hp at the wheels. 1/4 mile 91 mph.

There is also the 87 Riv T model with a turbocharged 6, a lot more complex but with good performance.
Oh yea, a 455 Olds will fit. I know of one such conversion.

The SBC conversion would probably work out mechanically; don't know about tying into your
present electronics. The smaller engine would have to rev to get hp, but maybe that would be
less stress for the trans than big torque.

A late model transplant has the engine sideways, which makes a conversion truly challenging. That
before we even get into the electronics side of it.

My 79 has a 403 with TH425 switch pitch trans. It moves right along, is extremely tough, and uses
the cheapest gas. The conversion was complicated, but not as much as some you are are considering.
Bruce Roe

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