Front WHeel Bearings

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xgecko
Posts: 448
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2010 9:21 pm
TOA Membership Number: 831
Years Owned: My first Toronado was a 1968 W-34 with the bucket seats and center console... (weeps gently) It was a New England rustbucket in 1982 after less than 14 years. So sad. But it is what infected me and before I knew it I had another '68, a '69, a '70 and eventually inherited a friend's '67 and another friends '73. After buying my brand new Grand Prix in 1988 I retired the last of my Toronados and pulled the 455 I had rebuilt along the way and put it into storage in a friend's barn where it is to this day.
In Mid September of 2010 I happened to see a repeat of the show where Jay Leno did his 66 Toronado and had an instant remission of the disease which resulted in my purchase of a 1969 in very good condition. I am now in the process of fully rehabilitating it and hope to have it on the road in the spring of 2011.
Location: Gig Harbor, WA

Front WHeel Bearings

Postby xgecko » Fri Oct 29, 2010 11:00 am

I have found multiple sources for the front wheel bearings for my 1969. When I took them apart a few minutes ago it looked like there were two identical bearings plus a spacer for each side. When I go to NAPA it looks like they want $124 for their BR23 part and it is pretty clear it includes everything needed for one side. O'reilly (nee Schucks) wants $102 for their A23 bearing set whereas AutoZone wants $69 for their SET23. Near as I can tell, esp. from David Breznick's fine Drum Lessons webpage, a single $69 Autozone SET23 (Timken, no less!) per side will work, but it is not clear from the pics on the AZ site. There is a huge difference if I need two A23 sets, in which case the O'reilly parts seem to be the best choice. Although that too is not clearly the complete set... only the NAPA photo seems reliable.

Can anyone shed some light on this? I always had the option of reusing the existing bearings but I have the front end completely torn apart and figure it is always best to replace parts that are likely to be 41 years old... but then I had the knuckles jet washed and that may eliminate that as an option anyway now.

Your thoughts are welcome, please let me know if you have any information on this. David, are you out there? :P :?:
I have my Fuel Injected Toronado. Life is good! 8-)
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68 Toro
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Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2009 11:26 am
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Years Owned: 1968

Re: Front WHeel Bearings

Postby 68 Toro » Sat Oct 30, 2010 2:39 pm

Hi XGECKO,

When I undertook my 1968 Toronado's front disc brake installation in September 2005, one of my goals was to use all new parts, if available. Fortunately, front wheel bearings were and are still readily available for our Generation One Toronados so it seems prudent now as it did five years ago, to spend the extra money for new parts. Should these ever become scarce, then undoubtedly their price will rise exponentially. That would be the precise time, I'm sure, that one's 40+ year-old bearings would suddently fail.

I just re-read my Drum Lessons website and I did purchase Timken bearings from Auto Zone, $100 for the pair. I don't know if "Timken, no less!" is a brand associated with good or poor quality, but I can report that I've driven over 10,000 miles since the disc brake installation, without a single problem from the front wheel bearings.

It seems like you're seeking advise on whether to go with new bearings or overhaul your existing ones. My suggestion is to replace with new bearings, and wipe off and save the old ones in a zip-lock bag. Or clean them very well and use for paper-weights.

It also seems there is uncertainty which parts are required other than the bearing itself. I also recommend replacing the bearing seals. They're not expensive but you do need both inner and outer seals. There are photos on the Drum Lessons web site showing how all of these appear.

I hope this answers your question(s). What's your first name, by the way?
Dave B.
1968 Toronado
Miami, FL
TOA # 99

toro68
Posts: 66
Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2009 1:27 pm
TOA Membership Number: 102
Years Owned: 1968 Toronado, silver owned since Dec1986/Jan 1987 to present
1968 W-34 Toronado (totaled 3/9/03), blue, owned since August 1994
1968 W-34 Torondo, gold, loaded with many rare options, owned since 2003
1968 W-34 Toronado, red, bought in Nov/Dec of 2005, Was Lot#609 for Barrett-Jackson auction, March of 2005 . Firdst two "owners", was GM employees. I'm still in contact with Bob B. (OLds Zone Rep for North CArolina, retired 1992).


I aslos have a white 1985 Buick Riveria, that I would like to trade for another Toronado, or an old Ford pick-up truck.
Location: Sebago,Maine

Re: Front WHeel Bearings

Postby toro68 » Sat Oct 30, 2010 2:43 pm

Thank you for the information, Dave B.

User avatar
xgecko
Posts: 448
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2010 9:21 pm
TOA Membership Number: 831
Years Owned: My first Toronado was a 1968 W-34 with the bucket seats and center console... (weeps gently) It was a New England rustbucket in 1982 after less than 14 years. So sad. But it is what infected me and before I knew it I had another '68, a '69, a '70 and eventually inherited a friend's '67 and another friends '73. After buying my brand new Grand Prix in 1988 I retired the last of my Toronados and pulled the 455 I had rebuilt along the way and put it into storage in a friend's barn where it is to this day.
In Mid September of 2010 I happened to see a repeat of the show where Jay Leno did his 66 Toronado and had an instant remission of the disease which resulted in my purchase of a 1969 in very good condition. I am now in the process of fully rehabilitating it and hope to have it on the road in the spring of 2011.
Location: Gig Harbor, WA

Re: Front WHeel Bearings

Postby xgecko » Sat Oct 30, 2010 4:51 pm

Hi David,

It looks like the bearings are now $70 per side from what I can tell; while I am 99% certain the SET23 Timken bearings are the full pair plus spacer, I will not be certain until I order and inspect them. My comment regarding that these are Timken Bearings comes from recognizing them as one of the best bearing manufacturers out there. Certainly a good brand.

Not sure what gave you the idea that I was wondering about whether or not I should replace them, but then, that is what happens when you can't talk face to face! :D I am taking the approach that I want to do things once and thus am replacing anything I can get my hands on including the bearings, rubber bits (bushings and such), brakes, brake lines and so on. And seals, of course. If I can get it new or remanufactured I will do it.

Gotta run to a Halloween party! :twisted:

Thanks,
Jim
I have my Fuel Injected Toronado. Life is good! 8-)
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spank226
Posts: 18
Joined: Fri Nov 01, 2013 9:47 am
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Years Owned: 1967 Toronado

Re: Front WHeel Bearings

Postby spank226 » Wed Nov 20, 2013 10:55 pm

I realize I'm resurrecting an old thread, but I found this thread while researching wheelbearings and it was unclear if the current crop of wheelbearings being sold under SET23 through autozone were for a single bearing (either inner or outer) or a complete side (both inner and outer bearing).

I can confirm that SET23 contains both the inner AND outer bearings and races plus the spacer in between and will do one complete side.

Oh, and I round them for $59.99 with free shipping from autozone's ebay auction page.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Timken23-Front- ... 4e&vxp=mtr

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69W34
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Re: Front WHeel Bearings

Postby 69W34 » Sat Nov 23, 2013 12:58 pm

……..the picture of bearing set http://www.ebay.com/itm/Timken23-Front- ... 4e&vxp=mtr is ms-leading as the 69 and up bearing Set 23 came with two bearings w/cups and a spacer. The spacer is positioned between the bearing cup /race. There is no pre-load and though there are two they are not an inner and outer as one would expect. These are machined to fit and once properly installed they are captured.

I refer you to fig. 3EA-3 hub assembly, page 3EA-3 of the 69 factory chassis service manual.

As for Timken they were, and there is no reason to suspect other wise an excellent provider of service replacement parts.

The 66-68 used a roller pin bearing ... in addition should one not have a 69 factory service book any 70-78 service manual should provide an equally equivalent description of front wheel bearing and seal service.

hope this helps
Bill
TOA #1

Schurkey
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Re: Front WHeel Bearings

Postby Schurkey » Fri Dec 20, 2013 9:48 am

Just FYI--The "23" is one of many bearing-industry interchange numbers. The prefix may change depending on the manufacturer. An "A-23" is the equivalent to a "BRG-23" or "Set 23" or whatever. They'll all include an equivalent bearing set inside the box.

The actual tapered-roller bearings and races that are included in the "23" assembly are about as ordinary and pedestrian as you can get. They'd be about $15 each, $30 for the pair if you bought them individually. Half that, maybe, if you'd accept Chinese bearings. Once upon a time I had the part numbers of the bearings and the races. As I recall, the roller and race unit for a single bearing has it's own set number. Can't find it right now.

The expense of the "23" set is in precisely measuring a pair of those plain ol' ordinary bearings, and then selecting a precision-fit spacer to go between them. The spacer is the "magic" of the "23" assembly; as it controls the bearing free-play once the thing is assembled and the axle nut torqued. Buying new individual bearings and races, but re-using the spacer from the previous bearing set would be a total crap-shoot in terms of getting the proper free-play.

My understanding is that the GMC motor-home guys like thousandth or two of additional free-play on the bearings in their rigs. Far as I know, there's no unusual problem with the "23" bearings on the cars, (in fact, I'd call them very reliable) but the motorhomes have a tendency to beat 'em up.

chal3oye
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Joined: Thu Dec 26, 2013 9:28 pm
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Re: Front WHeel Bearings

Postby chal3oye » Thu Dec 26, 2013 10:19 pm

If available. Fortunately, front wheel bearings were and are still readily available for our Generation One Toronados so it seems prudent now as it did five years ago, to spend the extra money for new parts. Should these ever become scarce, then undoubtedly their price will rise exponentially. That would be the precise time, I'm sure, that one's 40+ year-old bearings would suddently fail.

I just re-read my Drum Lessons website and I did purchase Timken bearings from Auto Zone, $100 for the pair. I don't know if "Timken, no less!" is a brand associated with good or poor quality, but I can report that I've driven over 10,000 miles since the disc brake installation, without a single problem from the front wheel bearings.

It seems like you're seeking advise on whether to go with new bearings or overhaul your existing ones. My suggestion is to replace with new bearings, and wipe off and save the old ones in a zip-lock bag. Or clean them very well and use for paper-weights.
GuL


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