Aluminum Heads for Olds 455

[xgecko]

I will be rebuilding the motor in my '69 early next year and I plan to use the Edelbrock Aluminum Heads to replace my Cast Iron "C" heads. This offers a substantial improvement in flow and helps reduce or eliminate issues related to detonation for high compression ratio builds. I want to keep the 10.25:1 compression while running it on 92 octane pump gas so I am looking forward to using these heads. There are some issues related to using these; mostly the need for adjustable rocker arms (roller rockers are ideal here), and you probably will want to invest in an aluminum manifold from Mondello or the fellow that advertised here. The Mondello is a bit more expensive but has been port matched to the heads. The heads are available from Summit at about half the cost ($850) for the Mondello version ($1595) and Edelbrock tells me there are few if any meaningful differences for street use.

I will report back on any issues I have with them from a fit perspective - as we all know our motors sit very high and there can be clearance issues with the hood.

http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive_new ... olds.shtml

[Twilight Fenrir]

Keep in mind, toronado's have a unique intake manifold. I have never seen an aluminum manidold for a toro. I havent looked all that hard, but I know neither edelbrock or holley have one. If you put one not built for it, you will have to modify your hood.

[xgecko]

While I appreciate the comment, I am acutely aware of the nature of the Toro manifold having rebuilt a Toronado 455 more than 20 years ago. There are two sources of Toronado style aluminum manifolds; one is a fellow that is a TOA member and has a post in the Parts pages (he may not have any left), and the other is Mondello who makes a Toronado compatible manifold that is matched to the Edelbrock heads - assuming there is little difference between the Summit sourced heads and the lowest cost version sold by Mondello who might have post processed them after receiving them from Edelbrock; Mondello may very well have ported them further.

In both cases I am told that the heat passage that goes under the carb has been omitted due to the issues it has with cracking and so on. This means you cannot use the stock Toronado Q-Jet in early cars. I am not exactly certain what year had the transition to the electric choke, but cars prior to that year will need to have a carb with an electric choke.

I also have an Edelbrock Performer aluminum manifold however that would require hood mods I am at present unwilling to make. Once I get a second hood I may consider a cowl induction mod, but failing that I want a stock setup hood-wise.

The other issue I need to revisit is what the Mondello rep said about the need for a particular Mondello rocker arm to go with the aluminum heads so you can then use a valve cover that fits under the Toro hood. This sounded completely possible but seems to require specific components. I need to investigate this in greater detail prior to my rebuild this spring.

[Twilight Fenrir]

Ah, my apologies. Its not often I see someone with a more recent join date than me, so just wanted to be sure. And you definitely know more than I do it would seem.

Im pretty sure my 66 has an electric choke... I was suspicious that I may not have the orriginal carb, does this cpnfirm it? I'll have to round one up then. No biggie.

[xgecko]

No apology necessary; you have no way of knowing my competence level.

You almost certainly have a mechanical choke if the carb is bone stock. There is a small boxlike apparatus on the passenger side of the carb which has a rod sticking up to the choke mechanism; this is a thermal spring that actuates the choke when cold and slowly lets it off as the engine warms.

Keep in mind the aluminum manifolds are $600 to $700. That may put a damper on any enthusiasm you might have. In my case I bought this Toronado instead of a modern sport sedan, so I am willing to invest in the car to make it very drivable. I am not doing a concours car, rather, my intent is to make it a reliable, very drivable GT cruiser. I am really looking forward to having it on the road this summer if all goes well.

[Twilight Fenrir]

No apology necessary; you have no way of knowing my competence level.

You almost certainly have a mechanical choke if the carb is bone stock. There is a small boxlike apparatus on the passenger side of the carb which has a rod sticking up to the choke mechanism; this is a thermal spring that actuates the choke when cold and slowly lets it off as the engine warms.

Keep in mind the aluminum manifolds are $600 to $700. That may put a damper on any enthusiasm you might have. In my case I bought this Toronado instead of a modern sport sedan, so I am willing to invest in the car to make it very drivable. I am not doing a concours car, rather, my intent is to make it a reliable, very drivable GT cruiser. I am really looking forward to having it on the road this summer if all goes well.

Well, I wasn't planning on putting aluminum parts on actually. And, I double-checked and its mechanical... Never seen one like that before. Also ran the casting # and its from a 66 oldsmobile, so its probably orriginal

I'm looking to tear mine completely appart and rebuild everything in the coming years, but I plan on rebuilding the engine this winter so I can drive it all next summer and enjoy it before I strip it down. I plan on keeping it mostly stock. Thinking about using the eyebrows above the headlight doors as a functional scoop... Put little plates that will open with the throttle, so it looks factory just sitting, and the cold-air intake should help out too with performance.

[Graniteman]

There are several better places to buy Olds stuff from than Mondello's. Joe doesn't run the place anymore and hasn't for a few years. Lynn W. has a very bad rep when it comes to any sort of customer service, many Olds people no longer do any business there. Also they make nothing; everything they sell can be bought elsewhere for less $$$$.
Personally I think Joe Mondello is a great guy, I bought stuff from him and got some great help from him 30 years ago when I was running Olds powered stock cars, BUT as I said above Joe is out of the picture.
An original '66 Toro QJet may not be real easy to find; they were very problematic (Sparky calls them "pattymelts") and a great many of them burned up and many were replaced with field service carbs long ago.
I may sell mine shortly though and it has been rebuilt and no longer has the "toilet flapper" needle & seat that was the main problem with them.
If anyone is interested in buying a correct numbered '66 Toronado Q Jet in excellent health please LMK.

Mike

[xgecko]

I totally agree. Use Mondello as a last resort, but you may need to bite the bullet in certain circumstances.

The sole reason I would go to them at this point is that they may be the only source for certain parts. The Aluminum Intake Manifold may be a good example; their JM-20-22 is a really good cam for street performance at a reasonable (?!?) price. Some other specialty parts are interesting too.

That said, I found them to use high pressure sales techniques, although not too annoyingly at least when I last talked with them. They said things like "we only have one in stock" and similar things intended to get you to buy now, and that turned me off. And I ran across numerous reports of abysmal service and to top it off I have yet to get a reply to an email inquiry I made recently.

It is too bad Joe left the company. I gather he is now doing something in Memphis or somewhere else in Tennessee; not sure what it is all about.

If anyone knows of an alternate source for the manifold they sell - aside from Rockwell Precision (although hopefully they continue to offer the aluminum manifold) - then please by all means post a link.

[Twilight Fenrir]

There are several better places to buy Olds stuff from than Mondello's. Joe doesn't run the place anymore and hasn't for a few years. Lynn W. has a very bad rep when it comes to any sort of customer service, many Olds people no longer do any business there. Also they make nothing; everything they sell can be bought elsewhere for less $$$$.
Personally I think Joe Mondello is a great guy, I bought stuff from him and got some great help from him 30 years ago when I was running Olds powered stock cars, BUT as I said above Joe is out of the picture.
An original '66 Toro QJet may not be real easy to find; they were very problematic (Sparky calls them "pattymelts") and a great many of them burned up and many were replaced with field service carbs long ago.
I may sell mine shortly though and it has been rebuilt and no longer has the "toilet flapper" needle & seat that was the main problem with them.
If anyone is interested in buying a correct numbered '66 Toronado Q Jet in excellent health please LMK.

Mike

Is there something that differentiates a Toro carb from a normal '66 Olds carb? Mine is from a '66 oldsmobile acording to the casting number... Is that all there is to it? If it's not from a Toro though, I would be interested in getting one that was.

[xgecko]

There really should be little if any meaningful difference between a Toro Q-jet and any other contemporary aside from tuning. There may be airflow differences in some cases, beyond that not much outside of jet sizes and such.

Sparky can probably speak volumes on the subject if this is not enough...

The big difference is in the Intake Manifold which is a very low profile design on the Toro. But I think you knew that...