upper ball joint taper, first gen disk brake cars

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1970w34
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Re: upper ball joint taper, first gen disk brake cars

Postby 1970w34 » Thu Feb 13, 2014 5:23 pm

bluecab wrote:Carmen,
Are you saying that neither of the sets you had done had numbers on them?
The only way I can think that this would happen is that GM / Olds had more than one vendor for the knuckles.

David


They have numbers, just not the 407144/45, which would use the cheaper later model K5221 lower ball joint.

Those I have are forged with 377xxx or some such, which use the more expensive K5205 lower joint. These are the only knuckles I've ever found on a 69 or 70.

I can check them if you'd like to get the exact forging numbers.


Carmen

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69W34
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Re: upper ball joint taper, first gen disk brake cars

Postby 69W34 » Thu Feb 13, 2014 7:52 pm

Hey Dave /Carmen, I don't think these would be vender supplied but come from central foundry division or as seen on some parts as (CFD) as with Delco and/or Guide. That said the number should be the same. Remember that would be the 'original' number that was superseded in production and parts hence any reference to would be dropped /chanced in everything with the exception of the very early parts books, because 'everything' -upper /lower and tie rod end changed and as such companion parts there would be no reason support it( as in the old part). If you only needed ball joints you would most likely hit the locale parts store and the after market folks Moog, TRW what have you, their parts book if up to date would have suffix notation of some sort.
This come from has on working in a part store when /where book were used, kids today can only read-say what the computer shows them. Some time back i asked for a chock pull off for my car (Toro) and was told NA, so I asked the youngster to look up the same year but for a che*y low and behold there it was, to my surprise he said it wouldn't work .............. well blank looks are still free I said humor me, get the book out, he said what book, about that point I was ready to go over the counter! The short version is that once he found and started to read the book he turned red as beet and apologized. I said well did you learn anything to which his reply "I did" and I guess that's all anyone hope for.
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bluecab
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Re: upper ball joint taper, first gen disk brake cars

Postby bluecab » Fri Feb 14, 2014 6:01 am

I'll try to post some photos of the spindles I have in the hope that I can fins a match to one or the other of the spindles I have.
Also it seems that we might be getting closer to finding an answer to when the various changeovers happened.

Thanks, guys

1970w34
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Re: upper ball joint taper, first gen disk brake cars

Postby 1970w34 » Fri Feb 14, 2014 8:51 am

Hey guys, here are the forging numbers on the knuckles I have--these take the Moog K5205 lower joint:

377 022

376 019

377 021

376 014

377 010

376 01


These I'm positive are all off of 1970 models, unfortunately I don't have the two sets of 1969 knuckles any longer but I do know for sure that they didn't have the "later" 407144/5 (Moog K5221 lower joint) forging numbers on them.

Another issue is I did not keep them as pairs so I suspect that a "matched" set would be, for example 377 021 and 377 022 but who knows? Any input on that would be appreciated!

Carmen

bluecab
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Re: upper ball joint taper, first gen disk brake cars

Postby bluecab » Fri Feb 14, 2014 3:23 pm

The first 3 show the 407144 spindle
Last Import - 4.jpg
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Last Import - 2.jpg
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Here's mine.

bluecab
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Re: upper ball joint taper, first gen disk brake cars

Postby bluecab » Fri Feb 14, 2014 3:30 pm

These show the "other" side
Last Import - 7.jpg
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Last Import - 5.jpg
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Attachments
Last Import - 6.jpg
Last Import - 6.jpg (50.41 KiB) Viewed 12204 times

1970w34
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Re: upper ball joint taper, first gen disk brake cars

Postby 1970w34 » Fri Feb 14, 2014 4:41 pm

Yes, BOTH upper and lower ball joints are different size. The uppers also differ with 3 (early) vs 4 (later) holes.

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69W34
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Re: upper ball joint taper, first gen disk brake cars

Postby 69W34 » Sat Feb 15, 2014 11:40 am

WOW this is this is good stuff .... first I didn't think the 4 bolt upper ball joint appear until 73 (I could be wrong) that aside I would like to see a full picture of both knuckles 377012 / 407144 to see what the differences are if visual my guess would they are beefier.
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69W34
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Re: upper ball joint taper, first gen disk brake cars

Postby 69W34 » Sun Feb 16, 2014 11:23 am

From the up date desk: I (thanks to the people at wild about car) found a parts book listing dated June 72 showing both early 69-70 and late(r) 71-72 disk knuckles. There is clearly a part number for the early style, though it does not match the casting number as shown in the pictures above. I also did on search of NAPA online for ball joints, they specifically call out for use ( w/casting number 407741) and (w/o casting number 407741) but still no ( date per-say)

Here's link to the PDF

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q= ... iw_smnG_uA
Bill
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bluecab
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Re: upper ball joint taper, first gen disk brake cars

Postby bluecab » Mon Feb 17, 2014 7:25 pm

Great Stuff!

So, the casting # 377012 is a p/n 404377, (casting numbers are known use the last 3 digits of the p/n sometimes) and is a 1969-1970 spindle.

The 407144R3 casting carries the actual p/n and is a 1971-1972 spindle.

Thanks a ton, now I know what I need to look for!


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